Let's do that again with the Prius Vs. the Corolla.

Toyota Prius V Vs. Toyota Corolla L (5-spd) - 15,000 miles/yr, gas at $3.80/gal.

Let's forget any cash-back incentives for now and just look at real numbers.

                                                        PRIUS V                              COROLLA L

Initial cost                                        $29,805                                   $16,130

MPG C/H                                          51/48                                        27/34

Cost of fuel per year C/H                  $1118/$1188                               $2111/$1676

Fuel savings per year C/H              $993/$488                              - none -

Initial price savings                         - none -                                     $13,675

Assuming you only drive in the city,

993x = 13675, x = 13.8 years, or 207,000 miles, to "make money" with the Prius

Assuming you only drive on the highway,

488x = 13675, x = 28.0 years, or 420,000 miles, to "make money" with the Prius

... and this is all assuming you have no problems with either vehicle.  Do you think your Prius's batteries will last almost 14 years?

Now let's give you an $8,000 cash-back incentive, bringing your initial cost gap down to $5675.  The Prius will then make you money in 5.7 years (city) and 11.6 years (highway).  Does anyone know anyone who has kept a Prius for more than 5 years?

Here's some real numbers for you.

Chevy Volt Vs. Chevy Cruze ECO - 15,000 miles/yr, gas at $3.80/gal.

Let's forget any cash-back incentives for now and just look at real numbers.

                                                        VOLT                                 CRUZE ECO

Initial cost                                      $39,145                                   $19,325

MPG C/H                                        95/93                                        28/42

Cost of fuel per year C/H                  $600/$613                               $2036/$1357

Fuel savings per year C/H              $1436/$744                              - none -

Initial price savings                         - none -                                     $19,820

Assuming you only drive in the city,

1436x = 19820, x = 13.8 years, or 207,000 miles, to "make money" with the Volt

Assuming you only drive on the highway,

744x = 19820, x = 26.6 years, or 399,000 miles, to "make money" with the Volt

... and this is all assuming you have no problems with either vehicle.  Do you think your Volt's batteries will last almost 14 years?

Now let's give you an $8,000 cash-back incentive, bringing your initial cost gap down to $11,820.  The Volt will then make you money in 8.2 years (city) and 15.9 years (highway).

Quoted from frostyross:

If it is time for you to purchase a new car and you are going to spend $25-30k, why not buy a car that gets great gas mileage if that size vehicle suits your needs? I'm sorry, you can crunch numbers all that you want but buying a car that gets 40mpg is saving you money over buying a car that gets 20mpg. Even Mac can do that math!

If I was going to spend $20-30K, with saving money in mind, I'd buy a pure gasoline or diesel vehicle that costs $10K less.  A car with better gas mileage may save me money on my gas bill every week, but I'm paying the bank more a month just to keep it in my driveway; let alone drive it.

Also quoted from frostyross:

Anyone that thinks that you aren't saving money by driving a more fuel efficient car or aren't helping the environment by lowering your fuel consumption is simply clueless, sorry.

A Prius - at least a few years ago - was the most environmentally unfriendly car to produce on the entire planet.  Since so many parts for the Prius had to come from all over the place, more fossil fuels went into building each one than it would to power a V8 Chevy Tahoe for an entire year.  Furthermore, when each Prius "dies" so-to-speak, do you think the batteries float into the air, where an angel brings them to heaven?  Oh wait, that's right, every Prius ever manufactured is still on the road, according to you, because they don't die - so a Prius dying isn't an issue (to you). 

And as far as plug-in vehicles... I know I'm making a "poor" argument here, but people really don't understand where electricity comes from.  A fairly good chunk (now decreasing) of it does come from nuclear plants, fossil fuels, and other environmentally unfriendly processes.  So yes, when people buy EVs with the intention of "saving the environment," yes, they are all hypocrites.  I'm not hating, as you say - but I am making a point a lot of people don't know about the generation of electricity.

Quoted from frostyross:

I don't think anyone that goes car shopping is comparing the Volt and the Cruze, nor is anyone comparing the Corolla to the Prius. And FYI, you are comparing the top of the line Prius to the bottom of the line Corolla. You can purchase a fully loaded Prius for $25k if you know what you are doing. Compare it to the fully loaded Corolla and now the difference between the two is only a few grand.

According to this website, a fully-loaded Prius is $29,805.  A fully-loaded Corolla S (auto) is $18,820; a difference of $10,985.  But since you "know what you're doing," frostyross, you can get a fully-loaded Prius for $25K.  By that assumption, you also "know what you're doing" whether you're buying a Prius, a Corolla, or a chainsaw, so you can also get a fully-loaded Corolla for about $14K.  Now, you CANNOT argue with this, because YOU made the statement.

That's an $11K price difference (or a "few grand" by your definition), instead of the $13,675 I quoted before.  So let's do the math with YOUR numbers, frostyross...

                                                        PRIUS V                              COROLLA S (auto)

Initial cost                                        $25,000                                   $14,000

MPG C/H                                          51/48                                        26/34

Cost of fuel per year C/H                  $1118/$1188                               $2192/$1676

Fuel savings per year C/H              $1074/$488                              - none -

Initial price savings                         - none -                                     $11,000

Assuming you only drive in the city,

1074x = 11000, x = 10.2 years, or 153,000 miles, to "make money" with the Prius

Assuming you only drive on the highway,

488x = 11000, x = 22.5 years, or 337,500 miles, to "make money" with the Prius

Now let's give you an $8,000 cash-back incentive, bringing your initial cost gap down to $3000.  The Prius will then make you money in 2.9 years (city) and 6.1 years (highway).  2.9 years MAY be worth driving a Prius - if you're only looking to save money, of course.

And about posing the following question: does anyone know anyone who has kept a Prius for more than 5 years?  I actually don't.  My aunt's gone through 3 Priuss in the last 8 years.  People get rid of their cars in 2 years these days, which negates the whole idea of saving money, ESPECIALLY when buying a hybrid or an EV.

According to KBB.com, in 5 years, your Prius will have depreciated about 65.9%, while the Corolla will depreciate by roughly 62.0%.  After 5 years, the Prius will be worth $8,525 and the Corolla will be worth $5,320 - a $3205 difference - you originally saved $11,000 on the Corolla; so you've lost an extra $7795 on the Prius.  So your Prius isn't even depreciating better than the Corolla.

frostyross, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or even trying to break your balls.  I'm doing simple math here, derived on information from reliable Internet sources.  Do you not agree with addition and subtraction - you know, the way math works?  Talk to a mathemetician then; not MSN Autos.

I would be interested in seeing the sales numbers for different regions of the country.  Around here you see Volts EVERYWHERE.  You would never guess that they wouldn't be meeting sales goals.  At the same time, I have only seen one Leaf on the road. 

However, all of that makes sense in this part of the country as the severely limited range of the Leaf simply doesn't make sense and the Volt wins over.  I can imagine that in other parts of the country, especially large cities, the limited range of the Leaf may not be a problem, and the cheaper price might make it more attractive then the Volt, and therefore a better seller.